Why Radio Salespeople Need to Dig Deeper

    • 993 posts
    August 22, 2014 12:19 PM PDT

    "In all my years of selling, the biggest mistake I made was sitting down with a business owner and the two of us deciding on the key selling points of the business."   -Jeff Dostal

                RSC member Jeff Dostal's article below appeared in the 8/18/14 issue of Small Market Radio Newsletter.  According to the Editor’s Preface, Jeff is "one of the 'Radio Show All Stars' who are appearing at this year’s NAB/RAB Radio Show."

    Some of our members may recall winning a copy of Norton Warner's amazing book on wielding the power of radio advertising, "David Can Still Beat Goliath." It's a terrific resource for anyone who sells or invests in radio advertising.  Many of the principles found in Norton's book formed the basis for the video and online training materials to which Jeff refers below, The Warner Concept System and Marketing Firepower.

    A year or two ago, I was talking with Norton and Jeff about the problem Jeff describes in his first paragraph below, i.e., their limited success trying to get radio stations to use their advertising training system.  The most common objection they were hearing from radio folks had to do with the price - prospective buyers not convinced of the value of the training (its direct return-on-investment) relative to the price. Ironically, it's the same objection that we radio salespeople too often hear from advertising prospects.  In both cases, a lack of understanding and/or belief seems to be the big stumbling block.

    I thought Jeff's story worth sharing and look forward to your response.     -RS

    _____


    When Norton Warner and I began selling the Warner Concept System and Marketing Firepower to radio stations, we had a certain amount of success, but the system really took off when we started selling directly to advertisers.

    Working with advertisers has been an eye-opening experience for us, because they do not think of us as “radio people” but rather as unbiased advertising experts. As such, we have been able to learn a lot about the way retailers relate to media salespeople.


    CONSIDER THE SOURCE.  One of our clients told me, “If a media rep came in and told me that they were going to take me through this whole process, I would’ve gone stir crazy, giving them my time during the business day and trying to do everything else I have to do as a business owner.”


    Another asked me, “In 15 years of dealing with media salespeople, why hasn’t one come to me with this information?” I asked him, “Would you have sat down and listened to somebody if they said they had the answers you’re looking for?” He responded, “Well, no I wouldn’t.” I then asked him, “Even if they shared that information, would you have believed what they said?” He chuckled and said, “Well, no, because I would have figured that anything they said was biased.”


    When we first started dealing directly with retailers, we would sit down with them to make sure they were committed to continuing their radio advertising. They all said, “Yes, we will continue as before.” But about a year later, we started noticing that a lot of those clients were not doing radio advertising, or not doing as much as before. So I asked them why. They told me, “Well, the new salesperson doesn’t do things the way the other one used to,” or, “The new sales rep wasn’t taking care of us.” It boiled down to a personality issue.


    Another barrier is, as another client told me, “When salespeople used to come in from radio stations, I avoided them because I didn’t know what I should do or how I should do it.” To me that was a huge eye-opener; there are a lot of business owners out there who want to advertise, who want information about how to move forward with advertising, but they only have a limited amount of time they can give to it. So the only resources they can draw on are the media sales reps—but they are hesitant to give those reps enough time to share information. And if they do let those media reps come in and share information, the advertiser looks at them as being biased, so they don’t completely believe everything that’s been said.


    What’s the answer? The information, it seems, has to come from some outside source that the retailer views as being unbiased. That’s why our system and other third-party resources are valuable; that’s why radio people have used the Roy Williams' material so extensively. It’s an opportunity for the retailer to understand what those of us in the radio industry want them to understand, but in a less threatening way.


    OUR INTERESTS VS. THEIRS. The situation in radio today works against the best interests of the clients. In most radio stations, you’ve got ownership at the top demanding numbers. Management is pressured to deliver those numbers, and they put the pressure on their sales managers, who in turn put pressure on the salespeople. The salespeople—because either they don’t have the training, or they don’t have the belief either in themselves or in radio and what it can do—are often put in the position to put quick money on the books. And the way to put quick money on the books is to create packages and promotions and events—things the radio station wants to sell, rather than what the business owner wants to sell. As a result, many business owners have become numb to the idea of actually thinking about their business and creating a story—a message—and then telling that story over and over again to the consumers, so that the consumers will shop that business, regardless of price, because they know they’re getting the best possible value for the dollar.


    Here’s an example: I was calling on a prospect, an air conditioning supplier. He was nice enough to meet with me, but I wasn’t getting anywhere with him. I never presented him a package; we talked about marketing, we talked about advertising, we talked about why he was different from the competition. Two and a half years later—during which time I kept him on my list and kept in touch with him—he finally said, “Okay, let’s do what you’ve been talking about.” I asked him why it took two and a half years. He said, “All of your competition—whether the newspaper, TV or other radio stations—would come in every month or every week with a package or a promotion that I could just say yes or no to; you were actually asking me to think.”


    That’s interesting, because we are finding that business owners don’t want to think. Radio people are trained to do needs analyses, but in many of those situations, they barely scratch the surface.

    TALK TO THE RIGHT PEOPLE. One of our clients owned some gas stations, and he told me, “We sell gas just like all the other stations, and we sell candy bars like all the other stations; but we’ve invested a lot in our facility and our people, and that’s what’s really sets us apart—the experience is different.” He continued, “I used to think that I knew why we were special and different and unique, but after actually talking to our customers, what we found was we had no idea why people were doing business with us. The reasons people are spending money with us are a lot different than what we thought they were.”


    In all my years of selling, the biggest mistake I made was sitting down with a business owner and the two of us deciding on the key selling points of the business. Most of the time we were the only two people involved in that process. We were leaving out front-line personnel, we were leaving out other employees, but most importantly, we were leaving out the customers.


    I would challenge radio station salespeople to go to every client they work with and say, “Are there some clients whom I can interview, to talk about why they do business with you?” If radio people are willing to take the initiative, they will completely separate themselves from the crowd. If I walk in and offer to do that, and the next guy walks in and says, “Hey, we’ve got this package,” it might take me a little bit longer to get your money, but I’m going to get a lot more of your money—and I’m going to get it for a lot longer.


    Jeff Dostal is president of Warner Concept Systems and Marketing Firepower. He can be reached at [email protected].

    • 11 posts
    August 27, 2014 9:53 AM PDT

    Really interesting insight. Always facinating to hear what advertisers say about radio reps when they're not in the room. You can get to the real truth. There are two reasons why I believe Jeff was able to establish that level of trust and openness.

    1. He was perceived as a peer to the advertiser (not a sales rep).

    2. He had "thought leadership" credibility.

    The biggest billers aren't the best sales people. They're the best at educating themselves about marketing, sharing that knowledge through any channel they can and with those two things, they have the confidence and credibility to be seen as a peer.

    Unless you want to knock on 20 doors a day, those are the secrets to sales success.

    • 13 posts
    August 29, 2014 5:35 AM PDT

    I like these stories, but they omit one absolutely critical element...results ! The best salespeople ask the best questions, whether in a cna, closing or recap meeting, And I really like the idea of asking customers of a business why they shop there, That said, the object of process is not simply to get clients to allocate their budget to your stations, that's just the first step. Instead of 'closing a piece of business', a phrase I heartily dislike, I prefer to think of closing a deal as opening a new account. That's when the work really begins, to get more people to buy from our clients, more often, or at higher price points.

    No-one bats 1000, but well designed and executed ad campaigns always work better than those that are not well thought out. I train radio sales people in four areas; solution based sales methodology, designing successful ad campaigns, understanding multiple business categories, and managing their business. Too often I find that salespeople are only getting trained in, and are focused on how to 'sell'. A big part of the service we offer is our expertise in using radio as an advertising/promotional medium. Paying lip service to 'reach and frequency', good creative and 'selling results' doesn't cut it. Constantly developing and selling one's true radio expertise, and using it on clients' behalf, is what generates success for our clients, our radio stations, and radio as an industry. 

    • 455 posts
    August 29, 2014 10:33 AM PDT

    Two great points here.

    We need to respect the client's time (theirs as well as our own). I always tell a potential client that a CNA will take 30-minutes. That's my first chance to keep my word and I make it happen. If a client wants to go a little longer I may do that. I get more CNA's this way.

    Management often sacrifices the longer commitment and bigger dollars for a quick sale. That leaves us at the beggar's table looking for scraps after outdoor, TV, print, etc. have all swooped in and locked up the annual business. As long as you're in a seller/buyer situation, goals and priorities are different.

     

    • 993 posts
    August 29, 2014 12:53 PM PDT

    Well stated, Mick, and spot-on.

    • 993 posts
    August 29, 2014 12:56 PM PDT

    Gregg, the one thing Jeff left out of his piece - and I'd love to hear him expand on this - is that as a "street fighter" in Lincoln, NE, Jeff's success in behalf of his clients is enviable.  I'm guessing his training by Norton Warner (and behind Norton, Jarrell Shepherd) were significant factors in his success.  Still, training is only part of the equation; equally important is tenacity in every aspect of the sales/service relationship.  And Jeff is a model of tenacity.

    • 13 posts
    August 29, 2014 1:49 PM PDT

    Good point Jack. I train reps to always pitch annuals, with a two week out after three months...Radio works best over time !

    • 7 posts
    October 3, 2014 1:57 PM PDT

    I was introduced to this book over a year ago. To me, it reinforced and expanded on the fundamentals of radio sales. I refer to it often and has become one of the most valued tools in my tool belt! I have found that incorporating the information from this book with many of the Dale Carnegie principles, has led me to much success. I really believe that when you combine the knowledge of your radio business and asking the questions with the critical skill of listening, the solutions will be there and the sales will follow. This brings us back to the issue of having the getting the advertiser to spend the time with us. For me, this has only happened through persistence and most importantly, knowing about their business so we can talk to them in their language, not only ours. I am so thankful for this book.

    • 89 posts
    November 22, 2014 8:21 AM PST

    To add on to this, I think one of the greatest ways to sell a client who is skeptical is through telling stories about similar clients, what they needed to have happened, the campaign you put together, and the tangible results they attained. Tell it in a way that's easy for them to understand, you'll have their attention.

    The training in our industry produces a lot of used car salesmen AEs, not marketing specialists, and that is a HUGE part of why small business owners would prefer to avoid meeting with media AEs. They don't care to waste their time on listening to a bunch of lip service. They want to hear about tangible results.

    • 193 posts
    November 30, 2014 10:31 AM PST

    Great article.  I suspect that the keys to success in Media Sales have been universal in every market for many years past and to come.  Here's my input.  It's not short, yet success never is.

    1.  Focus on your customers.  Come into your first appointment with a new potential client with no solutions, no answers, no promises other than your sincerity in wanting to help them, not sell them.  Ask them great questions that have nothing to do with radio and everything to do with their business.  Determine the unique identity of the business and what differentiates them from their competition.

    2.  Gain consensus from the client on their true needs.  Go past the surface needs like increase awareness, sell more widgets and ensure the advertising can be monitored for performance.  Qualify and quantify the specifics of their needs.  For example, "sell more cars" is what every car dealerships wants.  Here are much more detailed needs - "Increase sales from our pre-owned inventory by 25% over the next 30 days.  Create an on-line incentive program that will encourage buyers to have their current vehicle appraised to build a data base of potential customers.  Position our Salespeople as customer service experts committed to continuing a relationship with buyers long after the purchase to encourage future business."

    3.  Ensure the commercial is based on what you have learned in your Needs Analysis.  Involve the senior management of the client, the staff and even a focus group of past buyers to ensure the commercial captures the essence of the business.  Do not air it until the client is proud of it and you are convinced it will achieve results with proper frequency and duration.

    4.  Talk specifically about client expectations and create a critical path for success. You must deal with realistic expectations before the campaign starts to prevent buyer's remorse later.

    5.  Engage with the right clients that are prepared to match your hard work in achieving success.  Chase the good money and walk away from the clients that will steal your soul.

    6.  Work for a Media Company and a Sales Manager that share the same beliefs you have about the sales process and have realistic performance and budget expectations.  Aggressive and attainable are two necessary components of the budgeting process.  Work for a Sales Manager you respect, who is prepared to match your efforts in the development of you and your account list.   If you and your Sales Manager are not the same page, you will not be happy or successful and inevitably be looking for work.

    7.  Invest in yourself and stop waiting for your employer to do so.  Professional Development starts with active participation in groups like RSC.  Buy a great book every three months.  Read it.  Apply it.  Ask for help from those around you.  You are the CEO and majority shareholder of YOU.Inc. 

    Understanding sales success is easy.  Performing the tasks on a consistent, persistent basis is difficult.  I hope this make sense and truly helps some Salespeople who read it.  Sales is the greatest job in the world for those who learn how to be great at it.

    • 13 posts
    December 1, 2014 5:34 AM PST

    Well said, but easier said than done ! I'd add a couple of things. Trust is the foundation of any relationship, especially in business, and to earn clients' trust, you must be trustworthy. That means focusing on their best interests, putting that before your own agenda. Second, be an expert in planning and executing ad campaigns. Given that radio works best over time, you'll probably be pitching a long term campaign, so consider writing spec copy for a series of ads, not just one. We're trying to get people to believe something about the client, which takes time, so make sure it's relevant, will motivate people, and is true. Look to cover three elements in any ad campaign: a good offer, a good message, and an appropriate schedule (including multiple touch points whenever possible). If you do this well, your clients will succeed, and so willl you !